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You are right again -- it is a bug. GG will work on it but this one is more involved than the last bug you found. Will update you when he finds a good solution. Thanks for finding this -- the OpenEDL is also a relatively new feature and would benefit from more usage and more testing. |
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A mod was checked into GIT which seems to fix this problem. I did minimal testing and it would be helpful if you could also -- if you let us know which operating system and version you are using we could build a static tar for that and if you would be willing to make a cursory test. |
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Ok for the principle. My operating system is Debian 10 and I use the version of cinelerraGG 1: 5.1.20200430 |
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@fary54 If you would like to do just a quick test, that would be helpful but ONLY IF YOU HAVE TIME. GG and I come from a computer program background and are not very proficient in NLE editing like people who use this for actual creation of artistic videos. First just download: https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-debian10-x86_64-static.txz You can just install this in /tmp on a temporary basis (until the computer reboots and deletes it) and it does not interfere with your 20200430 installation of Cinelerra. To use the single user builds, download the tarball and unpack as indicated: cd /path #(for example, substitute /tmp for /path) mkdir cin #(so that your location directory would be /tmp/cin) cd cin tar -xJf /$HOME/Downloads/cinelerra-5.1-debian10-x86_64-static.txz #(if downloaded to $HOME/Downloads) Then to start Cinelerra, you would do so from a window by typing: /tmp/cin/bin/cin #(if /tmp/cin is where bin is located) |
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I install the file like this: $ cd ~ /Téléchargements $ wget https://cinelerra-gg.org/download/testing/cinelerra-5.1-debian10-x86_64-static.txz $ mkdir /tmp/cin $ cd /tmp/cin $ tar -xJf ~ /Téléchargements/cinelerra-5.1-debian10-x86_64-static.txz I don't find /tmp/cin/bin/cin but I find /tmp/cin. I decide to start by typing /tmp/cin. After many testing, there is no difference. The bug is still there. I look for the version of this cinelerraGG and for me it's the same as mine (built: Apr30 2020). Is the good file ? or i'm wrong somewhere. |
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You did everything right. We did something wrong here but I do not know what --- yet. I will have to found out what went wrong. |
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OK, I did not run my test correctly and now I have correctly tested on the Debian 10 tar file that you used and it works when I did it right. You can see how I followed your steps 1-3, 5-7 in your bug.webm. https://streamable.com/o1fm4s So it really should work for you also. The important thing that GG mentioned is that clips are always just copies so you have to be sure to drag the actual nested clip to the timeline and use OpenEDL on that. This is what I finally got right and then after OpenEDL, I did a cut of a large section, and popped back up from level 1 to level 0 and the dragged nested clip on the timeline was shortened also. However, what I got wrong was that I expected the original clip that I had also dragged to the timeline to be cut also, and that is not true because it is only a copy. I tried 3 different times with each time working correctly. However, I did find another problem which is that when you pop back up, the thumbnails on the timeline were in cache so looked wrong even though it shows the correct video in the compositor. GG will try to get this fixed today. P.S. I played the big red ball scene twice because I just think it is so funny. |
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PhyllisSmith I just installed the May 31 version of cinelerra. After examination, the video problem is well resolved. However, the audio tracks remain unchanged. Another little effort and it's good. See the video bug-2.webm (2,452,845 bytes) |
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How did I miss that? Oh, I see -- my demo had no audio. Will work on a fix. |
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@Phyllis smith I just redo the test on the last version of July. I confirm that there is no change regarding the audio. The bug is still present. |
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@fary54 Sorry for a further delay -- we have not forgotten this and will attempt to get something done about it this month. |
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Since Andrea compiles from the GIT, if he gets a chance to try this -- a fix has been checked in to also change the length of the audio. It included quite a few changes to make this work and for making it consistent . This fix will be included in the builds scheduled to be created July 31. However, very little "real" testing has been done so remember that if there are problems, last month's build is kept for one month. |
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My test, repeating fary54's steps, is OK. Now the length is right, both the video and audio tracks. I wanted to point something out: I started with a project that has a video track and 4 two-channel audio tracks. When I create the clip and then turn it into nested clip, it has the video track and only 2 audio tracks, not 4. If instead I modify the project leaving the 4 audio tracks but setting 4 audio channels, then the nested clip will correctly report all 4 audio tracks. Is this correct? |
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@Andrea_Paz Thanks so much for an early test so we feel comfortable doing the builds today. The 2 versus 4 audio track problem with nesting is because of the Format settings being 2 channel instead of 4 so you need to change the Format for 4 audio channels. However, there is a bug when you have the multiple audio tracks nested that they are incorrectly shown. This is an unrelated bug and a new issue needs to be generated. |
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@Andrea_Paz I just tested on the latest version of GG. You're right, now the lengths are correct. @Phyllis smith Congratulations on the fix. But @Andrea_Paz is right about audio tracks, the length is well resolved but the content update is not Explanation: 1) First problem: -I create the clip with 4 audio tracks and then turn it into nested clip. -I move the nested clip on the main timeline, the timeline display 4 audio tracks of the same length as the video, but the contents of the audio tracks does not match the audio tracks of the nested clip. (see video 1) 2) Second problem: -I create the clip with 2 audio tracks and then turn it into nested clip. -I move the nested clip on the main timeline -I modify the nested clip by inserting a silence (MAJ - space) -I'm leaving open_edl In the main timeline the lengths are correct, audio too but the audio tracks not update correctly (see video 2) 3) Thirth problem: -I create the clip with 2 audio tracks and then turn it into nested clip. -I move the nested clip on the main timeline In the main timeline the lengths are correct, audio too but the render the video timeline out of sync with the audio. Maybe the same update issue as issue 2 (see video 3) To sum up: Congrulation, the length issue seems to have been resolved, but there are still a few small update issues to be resolved and it will be fine. video 1.webm (1,315,667 bytes) video 2.webm (1,347,562 bytes) video 3.webm (700,274 bytes) |
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Yes, I confirm the issues. |
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@fary54 @Andrea_Paz "1) First problem: -I create the clip with 4 audio tracks and then turn it into nested clip. -I move the nested clip on the main timeline, the timeline display 4 audio tracks of the same length as the video, but the contents of the audio tracks does not match the audio tracks of the nested clip." OK, I called in GG to help with this. Nesting does exactly what you tell it to do !! if you look at the attached png file, you will see in the patchbay, that you have Audio 1 expanded showing the green colored dot representing Channel 1. Then you have Audio 2 showing the green colored dot on Channel 3. Audio 15 is ALSO on Channel 1 so when you nest, it renders it this way and you end up with Audio 1 and Audio 15 waveforms on the same Channel 1 and that is what you see on the first audio track in the red colored box on the right side. Audio 16 green colored dot is on Channel 2 so that is why you see that waveform after you nest on the second nested audio track. This is a feature that audio-philes use and it provides a lot of flexibility, so it takes some getting use to. So what you should do is BEFORE YOU NEST, use the Audio pulldown and choose the option "Map 1:1" so that the channels line up the way you expect them to. Also, check Settings->Format to make sure your audio channels are in the order you expect in the picture on the left side. (Forgot the png, so will attach it in the next note). |
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Png for the previous note. video1.png (52,797 bytes) |
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@fary54 @Andrea_Paz "2) Second problem: ... -I modify the nested clip by inserting a silence (MAJ - space) -I'm leaving open_edl In the main timeline the lengths are correct, audio too but the audio tracks not update correctly" OK, the workaround is after you leave open_edl, you have to go to the Resources window, Media folder, right mouse click on that nested EDL and use option "Rebuild index" then it will be aligned correctly. We are discussing whether or not to do this automatically for you. Here is the reason why you might not want to have this done -- it would get done whether or not it needed to be done and it takes time that you might not want to wait for if you have large files (which in your case you might actually have when recording several hours of a concert). It is probably better to have the user decide if they have to do the Rebuild themselves. Any thoughts? In any case the documentation should reflect this too and it currently is not clear. "3) Thirth problem: -I create the clip with 2 audio tracks and then turn it into nested clip. -I move the nested clip on the main timeline In the main timeline the lengths are correct, audio too but the render the video timeline out of sync with the audio." OK, in this case although it may "look" wrong, it is not. Simply put the thumbnail images drawn on the timeline are just redrawn differently because they were generated again -- the sampling is just different. If you play in the compositor it should play correctly -- try that and let me know if I am wrong as I have not been able to create a similar case. |
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@PhyllisSmith First of all, a big thank you for your complete and precise answer. 1) First problem: I wouldn't have understood this by myself. I followed your procedure and it works wonderfully, I take note of it very carefully. 2) Second problem: I followed your procedure and once again it was the correct one. It's true that automation takes a lot of work. It might be better and easier to create a shortcut directly in the menu of the Nested clip (e.g: see image.png). What do you think ? 3) Thirth problem: It is disturbing because visually it does not correspond to the content but indeed it does not affect the composer in any way. image.png (226,677 bytes) |
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"It might be better and easier to create a shortcut directly in the menu of the Nested clip (e.g: see image.png). What do you think ?" I like the idea and will check with GG to see what he thinks. |
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@PhyllisSmith "I like the idea and will check with GG to see what he thinks." I tried in the 0831 latest build, there is no change. Do you have any feedback from GG on this. Thanks. |
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Sorry for the late feedback from me after discussing this with GG. He prefers not to have to add "Rebuild index" to that particular pulldown for a couple of reasons. 1. It takes up space, for what would be infrequently used by the majority of the users. As part of the "space" usage problem, please note that we just added "Select Edits" to this pulldown in September and now in October have just added "Deselect Edits" also. We need to save space for options that are not as visible elsewhere. 2. Rebuild Index is already available in the Resources window where it makes the most sense and most users already know to look there for it. Sometimes it is just more confusing to put something in multiple places and then you never know where to look for it. Sooner or later almost every user has a need to actually use Rebuild Index. Programmatically it would not be difficult to add this option, but we just prefer not to. Any last thoughts to convince us of its necessity or do you agree that we can mark this BT resolved? |
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I have taken note of the content of your last message. Before definitively closing this BT, I suggest you to wait until the release of the next version of cinelerra so that I can test it and give you my last remarks. Thank you very much for your follow up. |
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@PhyllisSmith "Programmatically it would not be difficult to add this option, but we just prefer not to. Any last thoughts to convince us of its necessity or do you agree that we can mark this BT resolved? " As agreed, I tested the latest version (20201031). I do understand GG's point of view. In addition, I noticed that you can rebuild the index via the resource window of several files at the same time. This is a big advantage So, as you said, there's no point in multiplying pitches. So for me, you can close this BT. Thank you very much for your follow up. |
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The last fix that was done was in August and no further changes were made after that. It is probably about as good as it can get for now. |
- Anonymous
